Kremlingate part 2

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Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

Why the DNC Was Not Hacked By the Russians

https://twitter.com/ElizabethVos/status/1096159928362901505

Former Technical Director NSA, Bill Binney & Larry Johnson former CT and CIA share their advanced expertise on alleged DNC 'hack'.

So, I read the article by Binney and Johnson, and in my opinion as a long time software developer, with a strong interest in security issues, it is pure quackery. I have pointed out what the real experts say in several previous posts, and even rebutted most of the arguments in this article point by point, but NDPP has ignored those posts, and just repeats what Binney and his highly motivated but incompetent friends have to say. It is an appeal to a fictional authority, which I reject.

NDPP

What about your opinion as a longtime hardcore Russiagate conspiracy theory developer? Sorry, as former technical head of the NSA, William Binney went to prison for his whistleblowing and truth-telling, so your smears of his work as 'quackery' notwithstanding, I believe him over you and your gobbledygook. But no surprise to see you choosing double-down over the embarrassment of admitting you're just another dumb chump that's been duped.

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/-W_WIE3hiko

"NBC News: No evidence of Trump Russia conspiracy."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

What about your opinion as a longtime hardcore Russiagate conspiracy theory developer? Sorry, as former technical head of the NSA, William Binney went to prison for his whistleblowing and truth-telling, so your smears of his work as 'quackery' notwithstanding, I believe him over you and your gobbledygook. But no surprise to see you choosing double-down over the embarrassment of admitting you're just another dumb chump that's been duped.

So, just for laughs, what do you imagine is my motivation for coming down on the wrong side of this purely technical question? I really don't care, politically or personally, whether the Russians did it or not. And whatever else I am, in this context, I'm not a "dumb chump". On the contrary, I'm probably the person with the most technical expertise regarding network security posting on babble. Of course I could be wrong, but my honest reading of the details of this case is what informs my position, not ideology.

You, on the other hand, are clearly motivated solely by ideology, since you have no technical understanding of the issue whatsoever. If anyone in this conversation is a "dumb chump", it is you, my friend.

NDPP

"Russiagate has been a joke since Robby Mook and Podesta literally came up with the Russia idea 24 hours after Hillary lost to Trump...

'The strategy had been set within 24 hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communcations team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up and up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument..."

https://twitter.com/ExtremeBalance/status/1095434617773907968

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

"Russiagate has been a joke since Robby Mook and Podesta literally came up with the Russia idea 24 hours after Hillary lost to Trump...

'The strategy had been set within 24 hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communcations team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn't entirely on the up and up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument..."

https://twitter.com/ExtremeBalance/status/1095434617773907968

Did these Clinton supporters decide to blame her loss on Russian hacking? Very likely.

Was that the main cause of Clinton's defeat? Of course not.

Does this mean that the hacking never took place? That would be a grotesque non sequitur.

 

NDPP

Michael Moriarity wrote:

 

 I really don't care, politically or personally, whether the Russians did it or not. 

 

NDPP wrote:

Pull the other one it's got bells on. But charmed to see you re-positioning yourself in the mushy middle nonetheless.

josh

Mueller has texts between Stone, Wikileaks and Guccifer

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/15/politics/roger-stone-wikileaks/index.html

NDPP

The pro corporate Democrat propaganda team and Russophobic conspiracy theorists are obviously scraping the bottom of the barrel and serving us the same warmed-over nothing burgers from yesteryear. The same texts were posted here already. Assange tells Stone to fuck off and stop bothering them. You know this already. But just keep posting CNN, WaPo and NYT since you and your 'progressive' pals here clearly share the same obvious and sinister msm agenda:

"The communications are the Wikileaks account telling Roger Stone to stop going around falsely claiming that he was in contact with Assange. They were provided to Congress and the public [posted here] over  a year ago. There can be little excuse for concealing the true content."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1096597674307006464

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

The pro corporate Democrat propaganda team and Russophobic conspiracy theorists are obviously scraping the bottom of the barrel and serving us the same warmed-over nothing burgers from yesteryear. The same texts were posted here already. Assange tells Stone to fuck off and stop bothering them. You know this already. But just keep posting CNN, WaPo and NYT since you and your 'progressive' pals here clearly share the same obvious and sinister msm agenda:

"The communications are the Wikileaks account telling Roger Stone to stop going around falsely claiming that he was in contact with Assange. They were provided to Congress and the public [posted here] over  a year ago. There can be little excuse for concealing the true content."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1096597674307006464

Oh wow. Your link to Wikileaks is conclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They deny doing what would be clearly criminal if proven. Any time someone denies being involved in something criminal it must be true after all they told you so.

CNN reports a direct quoate from prosecutors saying

"the government obtained and executed dozens of search warrants on various accounts used to facilitate the transfer of stolen documents for release, as well as to discuss the timing and promotion of their release,"

The article goes on to acknowledge the previous communication you refer to, previously reported by the Atlantic.

But since wikileaks denies it -- we should assume that they are right and that CNN is lying.

After all we all have certainty that wikileaks is always honest and always has the public interest at heart and would never lie to us. We know becuase we like them and we want to believe them and so we know we can.

Life is simple isn't it.

NDPP

The Real Motive Behind the FBI Plan to Investigate Trump As a Russian Agent

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1098017279562969090

"Great read by Gareth Porter on how National Security officials got us into the Russiagate mess..."

NDPP

'Fixation on a Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory is Not Real Resistance.'

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1099652281149128706

"Precisely. This has been the concern of many of us with the self-glorifying 'Resistance' from the start: it's obsessively fixated on a dangerous Tom Clancy drama. But when it comes to Trump's bombing, spying, militarism and imperialism, Dems don't resist but unite behind him:"

NDPP

Cohen/Batchelor: How the Russiagate Investigation is Sovietizing American Politics (podcast)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51154.htm

"Collusion,' 'contacts', selective prosecutions, coup plotting, and media taboos recall repressive Soviet practices...'Something is happening in America that is very, very bad...' - Prof S Cohen

'We have met the enemy. And he is us." - Pogo

NDPP

Propaganda Works: American Overall View of Russia

https://twitter.com/RealAlexRubi/status/1100833777339764737

"New chart from Gallup demonstrates just how massively the conspiratorial Russiagate media campaign over the past years has infected Americans with Cold War fever. Russia's favorability is now lower and unfavorability higher than prior to collapse of the USSA."

And Canadians being Canadians always do their best to march in lockstep.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/4hgWSrvXxzs

"Cohen kills collusion conspiracy theory."

NDPP

Cohen Testimony: Trump's Former Attorney Can't Provide 'Any Real Examples' of Russia Collusion

https://on.rt.com/9p7x

"If Cohen doesn't know about any collusion, who does?' CBS reporter Bo Erickson tweeted."

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/eR42Brd05qg

"Corp journos backpedaling on Russiagate like cowards."

NDPP

American Misdirection: Militarism & Capitalism Reign...(and podcast)

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1103329218572767234

"I joined Intercepted to talk Russiagate and how the crumbling of the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory offers an opportunity to become a real Resistance - not, as we're already seeing, to move the goalposts..."

NDPP

Cohen: The Long History of US-Russia 'Meddling'

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-long-history-of-us-russian-meddling/

"Even though the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee found 'no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia,' Russiagate allegations of 'collusion' between candidate and then - President Donald Trump and the Kremlin have poisoned American politics for nearly threee years. They are likely to continue to do so for the foreseeable future..."

NDPP

Media's Russiagate Hysteria Falling Apart

https://youtu.be/w44SNEDnlWY

"A recent Robert Scheer interview that deconstructs the Russiagate narrative."

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Media's Russiagate Hysteria Falling Apart

https://youtu.be/w44SNEDnlWY

"A recent Robert Scheer interview that deconstructs the Russiagate narrative."

So we keep hearing and yet nothing conclusive really emerges except those shouting how they want things interpretted. I suspect there will be more infomration to judge in time to determine this one way or another. I am willing to wait for that.

josh

NDPP wrote:

Media's Russiagate Hysteria Falling Apart

https://youtu.be/w44SNEDnlWY

"A recent Robert Scheer interview that deconstructs the Russiagate narrative."

Must be about the 20th time you’ve written the “falling apart” line in the last two years.

WWWTT

Ya that’s because it really is falling apart. Now that the icm has other stuff to attack Trump with (737 max), they will drop Russia gate. The only thing that was keeping Russia gate alive for so long was constant icm attention and over rated hype. 

 

NDPP

And a seemingly inexhaustible supply of Russophobic gullibles ready to swallow msm dogsvomit no matter how absurd or ridiculous.

JKR

Why not wait for Mueller to reveal what is and what isn’t “MSM dogsvomit?”

josh

NDPP wrote:

And a seemingly inexhaustible supply of Russophobic gullibles ready to swallow msm dogsvomit no matter how absurd or ridiculous.

I liked that better in the original Russian.

contrarianna

Russiagate falls apart: yes

Russiagate goes away: not a chance.

Even a Vacuous Mueller Report Won’t End ‘Russiagate’   

Too many reputations and other interests are vested in the legend for it to vanish from American politics anytime soon.

By Stephen F. Cohen MARCH 14, 2019

Russiagate allegations that the Kremlin has a subversive hold over President Trump, and even put him in the White House, have poisoned American political life for almost three years. Among other afflictions, it has inspired an array of media malpractices, virtually criminalized anti–Cold War thinking about Russia, and distorted the priorities of the Democratic Party. And this leaves aside the woeful impact Russiagate has had in Moscow—on its policymakers’ perception of the US as a reliable partner on mutually vital strategic issues and on Russian democrats who once looked to the American political system as one to be emulated, a loss of “illusions” I previously reported.

Contrary to many expectations, even if the Mueller report, said to be impending, finds, as did a Senate committee recently, “no direct evidence of conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia,” Russiagate allegations are unlikely to dissipate in the near future and certainly not before the 2020 presidential election. There are several reasons this is so, foremost among them the following:

....   If Mueller fails to report “collusion” of real political substance, these and other Russiagate zealots, as well as their supporters in the media, will need to reinterpret run-of-the-mill (and bipartisan) financial corruption and mundane “contacts with Russia” as somehow treasonous. (The financial-corruption convictions of Paul Manafort, Mueller’s single “big win” to date, did not charge “collusion” and had to do mainly with Ukraine, not Russia.) Having done so already, there is every reason to think Democrats will politicize these charges again, if only for the sake of their own careers....

https://www.thenation.com/article/even-a-vacuous-mueller-report-wont-end...

This latter point about "reinterpretation" of contacts and corruption as treasonous is already standard fare for Russiagate conspiricists there, and here.

NDPP

Chomsky on Russiagate

https://youtu.be/_EdXNCI51yA

@22:00

"I think it's so farcical that I barely even read the reports. The whole thing is a bad joke, for all sorts of reasons. There's no evidence of any Russian effect on the presidential election. There are countries that do interfere. One of them sent their prime minister - Benjamin Netanyahu..."

iyraste1313

LATEST

ANALYSIS

NEWS

US media suffers panic attack after Mueller fails to deliver on much-anticipated Trump indictment

Internet mogul Kim Dotcom said it all: “Mueller – The name that ended all mainstream media credibility.”

...Hopefully the media promoting the lies will be outed...including of course the CBC...here at least in Canada, we have rights to protect us from the lies...the CBC ad nauseum must be prosecuted!

NDPP

Mueller-Dammerung

https://off-guardian.org/2019/03/22/mueller-dammerung

"The long-awaited Mueller report is due any day now, or so they keep telling us. Once it is delivered and doesn't prove that Trump is a Russian intelligence asset, or that he personally conspired with Vladimir Putin to steal the presidency from Hillary Clinton, well, things are liable to get a bit awkward. Given the amount of goalpost moving and focus-shifting that has been going on, clearly this is what everyone's expecting..."

 

"Russiagate Peddlers Will Hopefully Be Remembered For..."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1108425981260455936

 

IsraelGate is %100 Percent Real!

https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1109254835910643712

"How 'Russiagate' helps the Israel lobby."

josh

iyraste1313 wrote:

LATEST

ANALYSIS

NEWS

US media suffers panic attack after Mueller fails to deliver on much-anticipated Trump indictment

Internet mogul Kim Dotcom said it all: “Mueller – The name that ended all mainstream media credibility.”

...Hopefully the media promoting the lies will be outed...including of course the CBC...here at least in Canada, we have rights to protect us from the lies...the CBC ad nauseum must be prosecuted!

LOL.  Most think a president can’t be indicted while in office.  So no surprise if Mueller didn’t recommend indictment.

Love these folks on the left and right prematurely spiking the ball.  Why don’t we wait until the report is released, if it is.

josh

NDPP wrote:

Mueller-Dammerung

https://off-guardian.org/2019/03/22/mueller-dammerung

"The long-awaited Mueller report is due any day now, or so they keep telling us. Once it is delivered and doesn't prove that Trump is a Russian intelligence asset, or that he personally conspired with Vladimir Putin to steal the presidency from Hillary Clinton, well, things are liable to get a bit awkward. Given the amount of goalpost moving and focus-shifting that has been going on, clearly this is what everyone's expecting..."

 

"Russiagate Peddlers Will Hopefully Be Remembered For..."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1108425981260455936

 

IsraelGate is %100 Percent Real!

https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/1109254835910643712

"How 'Russiagate' helps the Israel lobby."

The Israeli lobby doesn’t need any help.  And didn’t get any in this case.

NDPP

It is obvious on this board, that msm chimeras and agit-prop campaigns of Russophobia and China 'Yellow Peril' hysteria are accepted and advanced while pernicious and actually existing threats to democracy and good governance such as the deep penetration and political influence of the Israel lobby are met with averted eyes and nervous silence.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

It is obvious on this board, that msm chimeras and agit-prop campaigns of Russophobia and China 'Yellow Peril' hysteria are accepted and advanced while pernicious and actually existing threats to democracy and good governance such as the deep penetration and political influence of the Israel lobby are met with averted eyes and nervous silence.

Sounds like something out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

josh

No, he’s right about the undue influence of the Israeli lobby.  He’s just wrong if he thinks I look the other way.

NDPP

Notice the standard tired Zionist counterattack by slur . Perhaps JKR provides the answer to the aversion of the eyes and nervous silence.  

'It's a trick, we always use it.'

https://youtu.be/7BEVLD6YHsc

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/HjPgO57AzjQ

"Russiagate fizzles out as Mueller ends investigation."

NorthReport

Will the Mueller Report Be Made Public? 17 Answers to What May Come Next

Maggie Haberman, Michael Schmidt, Mark Mazzetti and more of our journalists explained what the submission of the full report means and what may come next.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/us/mueller-questions-answers.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

josh

Principal conclusions won’t be submitted to Congress today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattzap/status/1109506469580419073

NDPP

Russiagate Skeptics Rightly Boast About Being Proven 100% Correct

https://t.co/zzJ8oAQh47

"Russiagate was a pernicious lie advanced by secretive government agencies who've been plotting to shove Russia off the world stage since the fall of the Soviet Union, by the Democrats who've had a vested interest in avoiding accountability for their failures and malfeasance in the 2016 election, and by the mass media who've been reaping extreme profits by peddling the clickbait sensationalist conspiracy theory that the Kremlin has infiltrated the highest level of the US government.

You can be absolutely certain that the people who've been advancing the Russiagate narrative will never go out of their way to acknowledge the undeniable fact that they have been proven wrong..."

josh

How exactly have they’ve been proven 100% correct.  The report’s conclusions still have not been revealed.

iyraste1313

Maggie Haberman, Michael Schmidt, Mark Mazzetti and more of our journalists explained what the submission of the full report means and what may come next.....

How can anyone pay any attention to what these bs artists say....Unless we press the point, Russiagate won´t be the deathknell of the msm...which it should be...total propaganda, just as the soviet media were back in their days....

CBC must be challeneged in Canada...heads must roll, the bureaucrats in control of the cbc must be held accountable!

Or will we just watch and wait for their next program of bs propaganda? Such as of course Venezuela, Crimea ad nauseum...Let´s be quite clear on this...the propaganda is first round in the launch of regime changes and wars...It must be nipped in the bud, from the outset. The media was charged with intellectual complicity during the Nuremburg trials...so must the msm! Now!

contrarianna

It's official: Russiagate is this generation's WMD
The Iraq war faceplant damaged the reputation of the press. Russiagate just destroyed it

Mar 23  Matt Taibbi

....
As has long been rumored, the former FBI chief’s independent probe will result in multiple indictments and convictions, but no “presidency-wrecking” conspiracy charges, or anything that would meet the layman’s definition of “collusion” with Russia.

With the caveat that even this news might somehow turn out to be botched, the key detail in the many stories about the end of the Mueller investigation was best expressed by the New York Times:

A senior Justice Department official said that Mr. Mueller would not recommend new indictments.

The Times tried to soften the emotional blow for the millions of Americans trained in these years to place hopes for the overturn of the Trump presidency in Mueller. Nobody even pretended it was supposed to be a fact-finding mission, instead of an act of faith.

The Special Prosecutor literally became a religious figure during the last few years, with votive candles sold in his image and Saturday Night Live cast members singing “All I Want for Christmas is You” to him featuring the rhymey line: “Mueller please come through, because the only option is a coup.”....

The paper was signaling it understood there would now be questions about whether or not news outlets like themselves made a galactic error by betting heavily on a new, politicized approach, trying to be true to “history’s judgment” on top of the hard-enough job of just being true. Worse, in a brutal irony everyone should have seen coming, the press has now handed Trump the mother of campaign issues heading into 2020.

Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base. As Baker notes, a full 50.3% of respondents in a poll conducted this month said they agree with Trump the Mueller probe is a “witch hunt.”

Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news....

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russiagate-is-wmd-times-a-million

There is no justification for left skeptics of Russiagate to gloat despite the impulse to do so after years of being called Republicans,  Trumpists, Putinistas, useful idiots, etc, for not drinking the collusion KoolAid. Sadness is a better response because the big winner is Trump.  Agent Orange has a much better chance of toxifying another 4 years.

This is the same Trump whose ultra-Republican vile policies, nationally and internationally, have been largley ignored (or endorsed) by the bi-partisan Washington politi-corporate establisment and media as they gathered all to follow the scent or the "red" herring. 

With the "Resistence" and media focused for years on the self-generated narrative of  "treason and collusion", it gives creedence to Trump's claim of "fake news of the liberal media". 
(Never mind the fact that what he calls "liberal" media is as thourougly neo-liberal and imperialist as Trump's supporters and media, and that Trump himself can't make two statements without at least one of the being "fake".)

Other big winners are russiagater MSM which was just "doing its job", that is, making LOTS of money with extemely successful returning gaping masses of true believers. I disagree with Tabbi that this  "a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media". The Iraq/WMD narrative involved occassional brief acknowledgements of "mistakes" and no career killing outcomes.  It will be business as usual in the United States of Amnesia.

Additionally, there is no reason to believe the neo-McCarthyite media will let up on claiming real progressives within and without the Democratic party are in league with Russia,.

josh

I would agree there’s been too much unfair questioning of motives of some on the left based on the Kremlingate investigation.  But that has nothing to do as to whether it took place, and what the facts are.

Oh, and Devin Nunez calls for the Mueller report to be burned.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/devin-nunes-rages-mueller-report-burned/

josh

Mueller concludes that Russians hacked the Democrats, but that Trump campaign did not collude with them.  Also did not exonerate Trump on obstruction, but did not recommend indicting him on it.  Other, financial issues, have been turned over to New York and Washington area federal prosecutors.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/read-barrs-letter-to-congress-on-mueller-report

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Mueller concludes that Russians hacked the Democrats, but that Trump campaign did not collude with them.  Also did not exonerate Trump on obstruction, but did not recommend indicting him on it.  Other, financial issues, have been turned over to New York and Washington area federal prosecutors.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/read-barrs-letter-to-congress-on-mueller-report

Assuming that Trump's appointee has delivered an accurate interpretation and is not spinning.

Why are we judging this letter rather than waiting for the actual report?

josh

Good question.  Barr, a political appointee, was also involved in the Iran-Contra pardons in 1992.  Democrats plan on calling him, and Mueller, to testify, and to demand release of the full report.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The CBC spent all weekend prior to the release talking about the fact that it might or might not be release. Apparently in the newsrooms at the CBC they only know what is important to US public radio audiences. I think Canadians would be interested in news from other parts of the globe instead of drivel about a non event in the US.

The outcome is what I expected but as others have said this may in fact be what Trump needs to be reelected.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Good question.  Barr, a political appointee, was also involved in the Iran-Contra pardons in 1992.  Democrats plan on calling him, and Mueller, to testify, and to demand release of the full report.

It is very possible that there will be no evidence found. It would take a lot of carelessness to leave enough evidence for a conviction. Conspiracies are often difficult to prove becuase those involved know not to leave behind proof and rarely make enough mistakes to be caught.

It is likely that this will get spun for ever on both sides -- both sides will want to pretend that this is a conclusive report when it is possible that it cannot be for either side.

GOP expecting to spin this as a declaration of presidential innocence may be embarassed by language careful to make it clear that it is not that. Democrats will be equally disapointed that the answers to their prayers are not to be found here.

Here at babble, people who do not know the answer will shout their expertise and knowledge at each other until everyone gets so bored that the thread will die of a lack of interest.

In the meantime there will be more investigations, more screams of witchhunt and who knows if any will find anything but there will be people here pretending to know and predict until Trump is finally gone.

iyraste1313

Possible, but there can be no doubt that the Liberal MSM have taken a serious hit over this...and given the total lack of interest by the US people (1%!), a serious loss of credibility on the so called left!

When the economic system, no longer bailable by the Central Bank, finally crashes into Depression, it will be right wing forces that will lead the movement, with any leftish movement, without any credibility...a serious dilemma for real leftists!

Sean in Ottawa

iyraste1313 wrote:

Possible, but there can be no doubt that the Liberal MSM have taken a serious hit over this...and given the total lack of interest by the US people (1%!), a serious loss of credibility on the so called left!

When the economic system, no longer bailable by the Central Bank, finally crashes into Depression, it will be right wing forces that will lead the movement, with any leftish movement, without any credibility...a serious dilemma for real leftists!

I disagree. I think that this has been the focus for a long time and while it has not proven conclusive, it will not be something that will change minds on either side -- it will therefore not do damage. With the report done, the focus can and should move to other things including any followups from it. If anything it will allow the left to move on to other things.

This report does not make the difference as to whether the left can lead or not. It hands nothing to either side so far. No need for fears or presumptions of victory.

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